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Thread: What are your thoughts on Zen when it comes to GYOW?

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    LaffingNow's Avatar
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    Zen pertaining to GYOW, have any thoughts? Do you practice?

    I practice it often and have noticed it helps bring sense regarding the changing world around us that can often be confusing. As pertaining to dealing with women, and especially feminists, it has benefits. Not a hardcore Zen master here, but rolling with the rapidly changing social environment these days has become much easier. I lay out some introductory tenets here I have absorbed and practice so far:

    1) Life is frustrating, painful and full of suffering
    2) Suffering has a cause, namely our constant struggle to survive
    3) The cause of suffering can be reduced by establishing simple interactions around us (work, home, life)

    We do this by abandoning our expectations about how we think some things should be and accept them the way they are. By doing this, we begin to discover a few things happen:

    1) We develop awareness of the true nature of things around us (tangible and intangible)
    2) We gain insight into how they’re really quite simple, and
    3) That we can handle ourselves and our interactions very well as soon as we stop frustrating ourselves

    Pertaining to MGTOW, I have observed the following:

    1) Western women are no longer women – they resemble men in their behavior as feminism has instructed them to act, and this confuses and aggravates them as to their role in the world
    2) Feminism will eventually fail – its corrupt radical and militant wings ensure this as their characteristics are contradictory to nature (lack of funding will accelerate this)
    3) Zen is for the most part complementary to MGTOW ghosting

    I have met only one other person who practices Zen and found most people either haven’t heard of it or frown on it, so I rarely bring the subject up. What are your thoughts? Do you agree, disagree? Haven’t heard of it? Psychobabble?
    Last edited by LaffingNow; 04-28-2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason: grammar

  2. #2
    Nacho Vidal's Avatar
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    How about enjoying life by taking each day as it comes? Have you tried that?
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    LaffingNow's Avatar
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    Nacho, yes this is exactly what I do. Every day is different. Change is always constant.

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    I don't practice Zen, but this has been my MGTOW experience in a nutshell:

    We do this by abandoning our expectations about how we think some things should be and accept them the way they are. By doing this, we begin to discover a few things happen:

    1) We develop awareness of the true nature of things around us (tangible and intangible)
    2) We gain insight into how they’re really quite simple, and
    3) That we can handle ourselves and our interactions very well as soon as we stop frustrating ourselves
    The real struggle is abandoning our expectations.

    Most men can't abandon their expectations of finding a mate and having children. No matter how many times they get burned in divorce, no matter how many times they see the kids of their male friends being taken away by the ex-wives, most men still want to believe in the ideals of love and companionship.

    I do agree, if you can get past this, it becomes much easier to see all that bullshit for what it really is.

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    womanhater's Avatar
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    To paraphrase the late Carl Sagan - It is better to face and accept the truth, no matter how bitter, than to persist in delusion, no matter how comforting.

    If Zen is the means by which a man can obtain this realization then awesome. As a Catholic, I simply accept that we live in a broken and decaying universe that is a perversion of the divine intention.

    The enlightenment, acceptance, red-pill, whatever analogy you care to use, will destroy many if not most people (a la Flowers for Algernon) but it can and will set you free also. Being able to totally accept the pure injustice, indifference, and often malevolence of the universe and its inhabitants also frees you from any unreasonable expectation, which should destroy any expectation you have.

    YOU and YOU ALONE are responsible for your happiness. Almost everyone else on Earth is willing to sacrifice your happiness for their own. The only things I rely on or have expectations of are the laws of physics and the certitude of mathematics. Everything else is unreliable.

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    Nacho Vidal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaffingNow View Post
    Nacho, yes this is exactly what I do. Every day is different. Change is always constant.
    Then you don't need Zen nor do you need to worry about feminism/******ism etc. Leave feminism to the bulldog faced lesbos and leave ******ism to the White Knights/Manginas!

    Being MGTOW should mean that we're past that shit, so we're doing our own shit!
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    ng85's Avatar
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    By your definitions, it sounds like MGTOW is a form of Zen in itself - Realizing things for how they are, and then disregarding them if they interfere with how you want your life to be. Although I don't subscribe to any religions or philosophies, Zen does make sense in this context.

    Or, if you're a Subgenius, you can view MGTOW as a way of utilizing the most out of your Slack.

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    Without women my life is nirvana, I know that much.

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    I Live for me not "WE"'s Avatar
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    Peace comes to those who will it. Peace and laughter are my temple. I would and will not allow my peace and happiness to be disturbed. It may be selfish to some but I do not want the added troubles that a woman brings to the table. If it were different or some planets align and It occurs I fell through a gap in space and time to find a perfect match in an alternate universe maybe I would be willing but til then my source of peace shall be undisturbed.

    Put it this way. Its best to find your own happiness than trying to gain it with the help of someone else.

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    Sounds right on to me, maybe I'll look into it more.

    That's what I try to do, establish simple interactions and ways of doing things - trying to live according to my true intentions but I'm still too weak mentally.

    Suffering comes from struggling against reality, once you accept it the suffering disappears.

    I go back and forth on this.
    Last edited by toadman; 04-29-2012 at 07:54 AM.

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    LaffingNow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downandout View Post
    The real struggle is abandoning our expectations…if you can get past this, it becomes much easier to see all that bullshit for what it really is.
    Quote Originally Posted by womanhater View Post
    To paraphrase the late Carl Sagan - It is better to face and accept the truth, no matter how bitter, than to persist in delusion, no matter how comforting… Everything else is unreliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nacho Vidal View Post
    Leave feminism to the bulldog faced lesbos and leave ******ism to the White Knights/Manginas! Being MGTOW should mean that we're past that shit, so we're doing our own shit!
    Yes, the expectation tends to linger and temporarily tabling it just long enough to see the truth (ugly as it is at times) is something I’ve learned to live with. I don’t know if it’s the good Catholic boy in me as well but I’ve learned to live with that truth ages ago no matter what it holds, than live with a lie. You’re better for that. Didn’t know Sagan addressed this.

    I also leave the “injustice, indifference, and often malevolence” as well as the “bulldog faced lesbos …******ism” aside the same as I do an upcoming accident about to happen: that is to let the troublemakers on the road go by and cause an accident somewhere else. Namely the proverbial White Knight/Mangina highway. Part of ghosting I figure.

    "Everything else is unreliable." That’s a big 10-4; not even stars are stable. I’m sure Sagan would’ve agreed.
    Last edited by LaffingNow; 04-29-2012 at 06:50 AM.

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    "Life is frustrating, painful and full of suffering"

    This is where I part company from scripted dogma.

    I personally have a lot of sympathy for Zen, and Buddhist thinking in general. But I am not a Buddhist, nor am I that much for or against any other religion. I accept wisdom whatever its source, and I cannot believe that any of the great religions is deficient in wisdom.

    But I will not accept "life is suffering" as an axiom. This was also how the Christians thought up until the Enlightenment. What we choose to believe defines our experience of life. I have never felt that living was a constant trial to be endured and overcome - though I am well aware that many, many folk see it that way. I have wondered why it is that friends I have who live their lives much the same as I do insist that life is full of problems to be endured, whereas I have only ever seen it as a pleasant experience with occasional periods of hardship that pass as quickly as they come.

    Any creed that tries to blanket define what life is has already failed to satisfy me of its utility. My life is not miserable. I see nothing useful in assuming that it is for me and everyone else. Having said that, I cannot argue with other Zen teachings that the solution to our problems lies in our perception of them. Isn't what I have just said an example of that?

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    LaffingNow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ng85 View Post
    By your definitions, it sounds like MGTOW is a form of Zen in itself ... Although I don't subscribe to any religions or philosophies, Zen does make sense in this context.

    Or, if you're a Subgenius, you can view MGTOW as a way of utilizing the most out of your Slack.
    ng85, I did notice a few similarities that relate to MGTOW. Not a religious person either. MGTOW and Zen suit me just fine. Now Subgenius Slack gave me a huge laff! There actually is a method to the madness and incredibly satirical in its unintended sensibility!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
    Without women my life is nirvana, I know that much.
    Thrasher, a point I’m sure most can appreciate. Well-said.

    Quote Originally Posted by I Live for me not "WE" View Post
    Peace comes to those who will it. Peace and laughter are my temple. I would and will not allow my peace and happiness to be disturbed…my source of peace shall be undisturbed.

    Put it this way. Its best to find your own happiness than trying to gain it with the help of someone else.
    I very much agree with this and the way you said it. A peaceful environment is my home is basic and a must. I also found happiness was a decision I made myself and not ‘springing’ from anything external, esp. not women.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewie View Post
    Sounds right on to me, maybe I'll look into it more.

    That's what I try to do, establish simple interactions and ways of doing things - trying to live according to my true intentions but I'm still too weak mentally.

    Suffering comes from struggling against reality, once you accept it the suffering disappears.

    I go back and forth on this.
    Stewie, sounds like in a way you were already there. It took awhile for me to experience the benefits of simplicity. “Suffering comes from struggling against reality, once you accept it the suffering disappears.” Agreed. A bit like lancing a boil; once you get past the struggle it’s all downhill. Gold.

    mogolking, yes what you are saying is what I am getting at. One has to want to fix things. But people are in different stages and experiences in their individual lives. Life is certainly a misery for a great deal of people. That exists. The experiences of many on this site are one example. Some live their entire lives and don’t realize that answers are in their own undertaking. What I have done is get past most of the combative and frustrating areas and this did work for me, but I can’t expect it to help everyone. Many just sit still and don’t want to help themselves. Btw, I’m certainly not pushing any religion. I’m just asking what guys think about it and if they noticed anything similar or relating to MGTOW. I did, and that’s ghosting, a cause of the confused nature of women, and the likelihood of feminism’s failure. Have you noticed anything?
    Last edited by LaffingNow; 04-29-2012 at 08:28 AM. Reason: inclusion

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    bem
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    Here's my two cents. I like using alliterative mnemonics whenever possible.

    (1) Have the clarity of mind to understand and accept who you truly are.

    (2) Have the courage to act in accordance with the needs and desires of your true self.

    (3) Be content with the outcome, irrespective of others' opinions.

    Number three is often the most difficult to implement, for others will always attempt to project their version of reality onto you, overtly or no. Contentment, then, amounts to building a fortress in which you reside continually, safe and comfortable for you, mystifying and impregnable to all others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongolking View Post
    "Life is frustrating, painful and full of suffering"

    This is where I part company from scripted dogma.

    I personally have a lot of sympathy for Zen, and Buddhist thinking in general. But I am not a Buddhist, nor am I that much for or against any other religion. I accept wisdom whatever its source, and I cannot believe that any of the great religions is deficient in wisdom.

    But I will not accept "life is suffering" as an axiom. This was also how the Christians thought up until the Enlightenment. What we choose to believe defines our experience of life. I have never felt that living was a constant trial to be endured and overcome - though I am well aware that many, many folk see it that way. I have wondered why it is that friends I have who live their lives much the same as I do insist that life is full of problems to be endured, whereas I have only ever seen it as a pleasant experience with occasional periods of hardship that pass as quickly as they come.

    Any creed that tries to blanket define what life is has already failed to satisfy me of its utility. My life is not miserable. I see nothing useful in assuming that it is for me and everyone else. Having said that, I cannot argue with other Zen teachings that the solution to our problems lies in our perception of them. Isn't what I have just said an example of that?
    Now keeping in mind I'm a Catholic so maybe I'm off, but I seem to recall the Buddha said that suffering was caused by desire and was not a default setting in life per se.

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    LaffingNow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bem View Post
    Here's my two cents. I like using alliterative mnemonics whenever possible.

    (1) Have the clarity of mind to understand and accept who you truly are.

    (2) Have the courage to act in accordance with the needs and desires of your true self.

    (3) Be content with the outcome, irrespective of others' opinions.

    Number three is often the most difficult to implement, for others will always attempt to project their version of reality onto you, overtly or no. Contentment, then, amounts to building a fortress in which you reside continually, safe and comfortable for you, mystifying and impregnable to all others.
    Clever, concise, cool! Nice flow, and yes the last point does take commitment firstly and especially to the castle of the self. Two very valuable cents you bring here. I clearly cannot compete..

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    peivanovich's Avatar
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    Life is frustrating, painful and full of suffering, only if you choose it to be like that. Period.

    I don't like Buddhists much and I don't give much shit about them. I've met more Buddhists, offering their "path to enlightenment" books for "small fee", than I've met infamous Jehovah Witnesses. In fact, I haven't met one of Jehovah's. But I see here and there these Buddhist "prophets".

    The whole religion looks like one big scam, with all these anti-materialism tendencies. "Materialism is bad, you wanna be enlightened, right? You can't be happy with this big pile of bad material goods, no way. We'll show ye the way! We'll help ye, just bring all yer money to us, in order to reach enlightenment and be happy." Here comes the bullshit.

    Simplicity is genius. MGTOW is simple in a way: first we get disillusioned, then we go our own way. No space for religious bs here.

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    "Zen" simply means "meditation". When people talk about "Zen", they usually mean "Zen Buddhism".

    Zen Buddhism struck me as a religion for the masses, for when times are bad and there's not much to be done about it. Chinese peasants living under feudal overlords.

    But then again, that's pretty much the situation that men find themselves in. So maybe its a good fit, paricularly for guys in the CS/alimony trap.

    It's a false path if it persuades you that activism is pointless. We have not yet entirely lost the fight - don't let "all life is suffering" persuade you that writing to your congresscritter about the latest outrage is pointless.

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    Swetnam's Avatar
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    Zen was traditionally seen as the buddhism of the elite. The Japanese used to say "The Tendai for the Emperor, the Zen for the samurai and the Jodo Shinsu for the masses"

    If you are MGTOW and are not religious, you may want to try Stoicism. Stoicism is about accepting the world and its people as they are, and developing reason and self control to master the dangerous extremes of passion and desire.

    To quote Epictetus

    "Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of men's desires, but by the removal of desire."

    That is as close to summarising MGTOW as I have seen.

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