The death of the manosphere? Which manosphere?

[DoctorOzymandias]

So i happened across a post from tihe blog freedomtwentyfive (not sure what type of blog it is but seems to be a PUA type site) discussing the death of the manosphere.

A few of the blogs mentioned I had heard of before... the old Tucker Max forums were my truly first introduction to the red pill (which at the time i rejected)

In the comments section I happened to notice a post by a Matt Forney, that speaks for itself:

The manosphere is moving water, a stream that purifies and cleanses, takes you new places, but is never in the same place for long. The haters—the “anti-gamers,” the MGTOW virgins, the MRAs—are stagnant water. They sit on the Internet for all eternity, their hatred and misery multiplying, poisoning all they touch.

Rumours of Our Death Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

I noticed he had a blog as well:

Ordinary Internet People: I Hate ‘Em

and well a lot of the posts typify what i dislike about many (not all) puas. The over-exaggeration, the arrogance, the 'getting laid' is all that matters and if u don't think that is the most important thing in the world then you are a loser virgin in parents basement etc.

I have no problem with their lifestyle, if they enjoy it then it makes sense for them to do it but why the need to attack others who choose a different path.

Not sure which part of the manosphere is dying but if it its blogs like that Matt Phoney , that are disappearing then good riddance i say.

[The Invisible Man]

I have zero respect for PUA's like that. They are professional female supplicators. They have taken being a mangina to an art form. They will twist, contort, corrupt themselves in every which direction to gain the approval of a female just to get in their pants. News flash, if you have to do all the bullshit to win them over, they don't want you in the first place, only a phony false image of you. How can you have any self-esteem, or have any bragging rights, when this is your strategy?

[kaveman]

Any man who lives for pussy doesn't have much of a life.

[PhilosopherStoned]

Zzzzzzz....What was that, another PUA/feminist shaming tag team, ok then I'm goin back to sleep. Wake me when something interesting happens.

[Reptile]

I have zero respect for PUA's like that. They are professional female supplicators. They have taken being a mangina to an art form. They will twist, contort, corrupt themselves in every which direction to gain the approval of a female just to get in their pants. News flash, if you have to do all the bullshit to win them over, they don't want you in the first place, only a phony false image of you. How can you have any self-esteem, or have any bragging rights, when this is your strategy?

Exactly the reason why I never bought into that garbage. Honestly, did we men EVER start referring to each other as omega, beta, alpha, and zeta even BEFORE the PUA garbage was pushed around? Sure we referred to animals in such a way but never really so much ourselves. All that does is pit us against one another instead of working together. Funny how PUA and feminism do the same thing..I wonder why..

[Rexbolt]

All that PUA dumbfuckery is made obsolete by Manhood Academy's Principles of Social Competence anyway.

[Forestlaw]

All that PUA dumbfuckery is made obsolete by Manhood Academy's Principles of Social Competence anyway.

I read that book as well. It has some sound principles in it, hence the title. The Manosphere is doing the opposite. It is spreading, and the reason is the internet is being introduced to guys much younger. They read about the "Cheaper to keep her" marriages, guys getting fucked in divorce court, or they see it in their own homes. The idea to research ways around said torture is there. Damn glad they're acting on it.

[Superion]

Blah, blah, blah...MGTOW Virgins...blah, blah, blah....

Shameing is their only tactic.

[intp]

Blah, blah, blah...MGTOW Virgins...blah, blah, blah....

Shameing is their only tactic.

The PUAs spend so much time focused on women, they are turning into women.

[mongolking]

They're basically addicts.

Substitute 'pussy' with 'booze', 'gambling' or any other drug of choice and you've heard their kind of talk before. For them all, there is only one thing worth living for, and nothing else matters.

The only real difference is that all the other junkies know they have a problem because they have been told it from everyone their entire lives, even if most of them do nothing about it. The pussy-head doesn't know, because this is one addiction that doesn't get any negative air-play - and that's simply because the media is controlled by the pushers, and the culture at large needs more men to 'man-up' and sacrifice themselves for teh wimmenz.

Guys that can't figure this out for themselves can hardly be expected to figure out anything a little more abstract.

[DruidV]

The PUA crowd and culture remind me a lot of junior high peer pressure.

"Hey Druid, why aren't you drinking, smoking, doing drugs, etc with us??? You a chicken or something???"

"Yep, that's me, a BIG FAT chicken..."

These guys knew as I did, what they were doing was self-destructive and inherently wrong, they just didn't want to suffer with their bad choices alone. I knew back then to avoid them, which I managed to do very well, TYVM.

Explain to me how these grown (term very loosely used) men, who are hopelessly addicted to pussy, which imo, is THE single most deadly and destructive addiction of all, are any different from the delinquents of my youth?

Now, like then, these guys think they're too cool, anyway. Too cool to see everyone else laughing at or ostricizing them...

[Jso]

they could not care less about mankind's struggle to be free. they don't want to be free, and they are not on our side.

[blarg]

Speaking of the old Tucker Max forums I read an amusing tidbit about the kind of guys who frequented that forum and PUA type sites. In his second book Tucker has a hilarious story called why I hate my fans. It's a short story about him meeting up with his fans at an event and realizing that those kind of guys are not who they pretend to be online. Well duh but this a recounting from about 13 years ago.

The story is funny as hell because he was expecting a bunch of guys he would get along with and ended up with a room full of guys who were total losers with no self confidence trying to leech some kind of coolness from him.
I wouldn't ever recommend the Tucker Max books as a PUA manual like some idiots do but as comedy value his short stories are funny as hell. I've probably never laughed so fucking hard reading a book.

Like everyone else here says though. The PUA types make no sense. They are blind to their own needs from trying to reinvent themselves into the ever changing idea of what women want. It seems like they took some simple valuable ideas and turned it into a self destructive lifestyle.

[BusterMcFriendly]

I've always viewed PUA as a very dangerous flavor of MGTOW. They have taken the red pill and may preach it, but are most privy to rapeshield, VAWA and preggers. One added danger is the ego-reinforcement of all that pussy. It's a potentially big, juicy red steak back into the Matrix and, like Barbarossaaa said about BJ's and blue pills...

Not only that, you have to waste a lot of your loot on becoming something you aren't. I don't believe you can do PUA on the cheap. Hey, I have no problem upgrading myself, just as long as women are kept out of it. A woman can roll your program back to 1.0 butt-quick.

Personally, I think this supposition is due to the recent female infiltration of the MRM, the Atheism+ war, Elevatorgate, and all the brouhaha surrounding these issues. I could care less how the MRM ebbs and flows. Like another poster on here analogized, the MRM is like the NVA while MGTOW is the Viet Cong. Unfortunately, the Cong were worthless without NVA supply lines. I can agree somewhat to that. After all, MRM led me to MGTOW.

The manosphere ain't going away anytime soon. The worse women behave (and they will) the more men will wake up.

[b-nasty]

realizing that those kind of guys are not who they pretend to be online.

I'd wager this is 95%+ of the 'PUA' guys. Keyboard warriors that talk a mean game, but are still the introverted, shy guy when put out in a real life situation. In fact, there was some recent meetup with Roosh and UofMan guys in DC, where they proceeded to act like typical frat boys, yet none had any success pulling that night. The embarrassment of stepping out from behind the keyboard and being found out as a phoney caused UofMan and a couple of other sites to shutdown.

That's not to say that one can't find tidbits of wisdom in the PUA teachings, but like most online/self-help gurus, the image is usually much different than the reality.

[blarg]

I'd wager this is 95%+ of the 'PUA' guys. Keyboard warriors that talk a mean game, but are still the introverted, shy guy when put out in a real life situation. In fact, there was some recent meetup with Roosh and UofMan guys in DC, where they proceeded to act like typical frat boys, yet none had any success pulling that night. The embarrassment of stepping out from behind the keyboard and being found out as a phoney caused UofMan and a couple of other sites to shutdown.

That's not to say that one can't find tidbits of wisdom in the PUA teachings, but like most online/self-help gurus, the image is usually much different than the reality.

Yeah that's kind of what I was saying but I've never met any of those guys in real life. I've only seen the laughable "pea cocking" guys going into the clubs acting like tough guys. There are some good tips out there to help introverted guys with women but the full blown PUA idea is terrible.

I don't really understand how PUA and MGTOW get lumped together in conversations aside from some people thinking it's all part of the MRM. I just really don't see that.

I'm sure I'm gonna take some crap for saying this but I consider the MGTOW lifestyle closer to the Japanese Herbivore Men way of life than anything. I'm in it for making myself happy and not putting my energy or money into a broken system.

To me the ultimate goal of PUA's is to get women even though they advocate pretending to want the exact opposite as part of "the game". Guys in the MRM are just taking a stance on gender politics so I don't see that as the same either.

If I'm wrong educate me guys, I haven't been here that long so I might be way off.

[fairi5fair]

If I'm wrong educate me guys, I haven't been here that long so I might be way off.

Sounds good to me. The herbivore thing seems to be more of an unconscious and natural behavioral shift, but that might just be my Western bias looking at an Eastern culture. MGTOW is the same call of the wild interpreted through more of a Westernized lens imo.

I always laugh to myself about PUA stuff because a friend of mine always goes home with decent looking women and he's never heard of PUA shit. His secret is priceless: A) go to bars, B) talk to women, C) take them home.

Of course, his real "secret" is, due to certain circumstances outside his control, he never had the luxury of being afraid of rejection. During his teens, he had a few-year stretch where he had to wake up everyday wondering if that was the last day he'd be alive.

[BusterMcFriendly]

Herbivorism is fueled by a Confucionist thought and culture. We westerners just have not been raised with this frame of mind from pram to pyre. Grass eating is an artform in Japan and South Korea. Very organized and even supervised. To break from your "art" could befall shame. Shame in a Confucionist society is a paramount travesty.

A westerner just doesn't know this as we MGTOW are viewed, for lack of a better term, as rebels. Western culture champions the rebel, while Eastern culture calls this insanity. Herbivorism is very structured and even cataloged.

[b-nasty]

Speaking of the Japanese herb culture, I saw this op-ed in the Times that made me want to puke.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/op...f=opinion&_r=0

It completely misses the social aspect of the Herbivorism culture. It also blames liberal government policies for causing the problem in one breath, while later suggesting the solution is more spending on liberal programs that encourage (thinly veiled) single motherhood. Japan is a few years further down than we are, but have proven to be an accurate predictor of our future (economic issues, housing crash, etc.)

[xtc]

PUAs tend to be very disturbed people. However I think the movement as a whole is a good thing, and helpful to the manosphere as a whole.

Basically, the good they do is exposing the true nature of women.
Your Average Frustrated Chump usually thinks there is something wrong with him. He wants girls, but struggles either to land them or keep them. There's nothing odd about men wanting to get with girls. Pick Up helps him understand what women are like.

My route to GMOW was via dabbling with Pick Up. Seeing that it actually worked caused me to lose all respect for women. I realised there was nothing wrong with me at all - the system was rigged and the women were neurotic.

MRA, PUA, and MGTOW all have in common a recognition that the system/culture/society is rigged. They differ in how they want to respond to that. To the extent that we have common ground I want to work with all these ideas, and where we differ I'm happy to disagree amicably.