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Thread: corporate workings

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    realworld's Avatar
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    corporate workings

    Throughout my 13 years career, in 4 countries, as an engineer in low and high level programming, i have seen and been a protagonists and actor of some nasty stuffs.

    2 of my bosses have promoted people who i was training before their promotion, and after as well. The main element of their promotion was that they were young, unexperienced, and posed no threats to said bosses. The latest of those 2 experiences is happening right now. So i have this 30 yold guy, with very little exposition, and quite weak technically, who s got to do my end of year evaluation. The guy is nice and very embarassed, because he knows i have 3 times his experience, and i am still showing him how to do things. The Boss of team, with no experience in programming ( bue head of programming!!), said this wouldnt happenned, after i showerd how ridiculous that was, but it was a lie, and by passive agression, he is making this comical situation come true.
    So a guy i m giving skills to, is going to make my evaluation.

    I see that kind of stuffs happening in most companies. Big time bootlickers with no other skills getting promotions and "supervising" people much more qualified. Or simply unexperienced guys getting "responsabilities" just because they pose no threats to the promoter.

    I am liE: i got several degrees, gained those skills in different countries, and being shut out by beginners?? (Not salary wise though).
    It is not a problem of attitude, because, in both cases, dozens of colleagues were completely shocked. And i have seen that with other companies with other people.

    what to do brothers??

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    8eight's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, that's the problem with big businesses, it's all politics.

    Keeping shady shit under the carpet, keeping threats down so that shady shit don't come up, so you can keep your job because the people higher than you won't find out about said shady shit, so you look like a good little boy, so you'll get promoted because you're a clean non-threatening guy who minds his own business who won't be a threat to the next guy up, so you can repeat the cycle.

    The key to being a corporate man isn't about doing good work, working harder and smarter or time management or whatever. The real key, is appearance. is your work, at best, mediocre? That's fine, just look good, make the company look good and keep a clean nose, and keep that clean nose out of any business but your own. The sociopathic social climbers who try a little too hard will promote you for half-assing so long as you are no threat. When they leave or get caught, you get their job because you are no threat to the next guy up - you keep them looking good.

    It's all bullshit really - merit has very little to do in the way or corporations.

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    TheManWithAPlan's Avatar
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    Corporations are the most inefficient creation of mankind. The best people at their current job get promoted until they do a piss poor job doing whatever it is their promotion entails.

    But yes, I have seen a lot of people do this in order to protect their own ass. The funny part is that most men don't do this, but pretty much every woman out there does. Usually people who are worthless and work on borrowed time are the ones with most to lose, so they will sabotage any threat. As long as your superiors believe you're a threat to them, you will never be promoted. Qualified people who know what they're doing have no such worries because either they'll have all of that experience on you or they won't be in that position by the time you get promoted.

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    realworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManWithAPlan View Post
    Qualified people who know what they're doing have no such worries because either they'll have all of that experience on you or they won't be in that position by the time you get promoted.
    I didnt get the second part of your sentence, sorry. Well i am qualified in my field (programming), worked and suffered for blue chip telecoms, high speed trading, industrial (building mobile devices from scratch) etc. I m not too old (the ageism is not yet a problem). If someone told me hot it works when i was younger...

    And YES! those pussy ass "managers" like i described are like women: lying, no honor, just self interest, even if it entails killing innocents. And i also see that most of these guys are married with 3 children, housewife, and that they have to kill a decent guy to protect their huge liabilities.

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    8eight's Avatar
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    And YES! those pussy ass "managers" like i described are like women: lying, no honor, just self interest, even if it entails killing innocents. And i also see that most of these guys are married with 3 children, housewife, and that they have to kill a decent guy to protect their huge liabilities.
    Pretty much what I said; Social climbers - the term I use for them.

    Not much care, so long as they get to the top. The problem these social climbers have, is that if you know that one of them is managing another, who is managing someone lower, who is doing the same... You actually have a ladder of sociopaths that you can expose and then free up a job opening... Just make sure the guys above them don't know it was you, who exposed them - that'll make you a threat.

    Then you basically climb the ranks through these job openings... of course - you'll have to find the dirt on them first, then find a way to expose them without exposing yourself, and then ensure that you get the job over everyone else who might seem non-threatening.

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    ThomasCovenant's Avatar
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    I have found that if you are particularly effective in a role then the company will try and lock you into it, effectively closing down avenues of progression.

    It makes logical sense up to a point. The company doesn't want to risk your replacement being less effective and thereby losing productivity and profitability.

    On the other hand, when the company tips its hand in this manner, it becomes vulnerable to blackmail where you can (with another job offer in your hand) bid up to a salary level that goes well beyond what you contribute. A portion of the salary doesn't even relate to your contribution, it is bribe money to stop you wandering off.

    I applied for a promotion and have since found out that my new potential boss blocked it because he saw me as a threat. Now I earn more in my old role than was mooted in the one I applied for. I now have documented proof that this jackass has cost the company money by doing that. Furthermore, I have now managed to worm my way onto a committee where I will be able to exert influence that threatens him anyway.

    My department is being asked to take on responsibilities from his. I just need to ensure that my budget allocation grows with it. The battle has a long way to go.

    It's very ironic that it has turned out this way. I just wanted to sit my exams and move up the scale, but I seem to have developed a knack for the political maneuvering!

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    echhijoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realworld View Post
    I didnt get the second part of your sentence, sorry. Well i am qualified in my field (programming), worked and suffered for blue chip telecoms, high speed trading, industrial (building mobile devices from scratch) etc. I m not too old (the ageism is not yet a problem). If someone told me hot it works when i was younger...

    And YES! those pussy ass "managers" like i described are like women: lying, no honor, just self interest, even if it entails killing innocents. And i also see that most of these guys are married with 3 children, housewife, and that they have to kill a decent guy to protect their huge liabilities.
    Unfortunately that's how it is now in business. It's been like that for at least the last 15 years I've been working, if not the last 30. Ther have been many articles explaining that the extroverts have been the one advancing(rise of the sociopath)
    Leadership Tip: Hire the Quiet Neurotic, Not the Impressive Extrovert - Forbes

    And the ones who do the work, are stuck in the same position partly because people recognize they are really good at their job (I know that sounds more like a punishment) all in all it makes them look really good you are good at your job. And keeps you in a position to not threaten them. Whenever someone complains about the government work, I point out big corporations are the same. Bureaucracy is soul crushing, more incentive to hide a broken cog in the system and work around it than to replace the cog. My only advice if you like the company is see if you can move to a different department/ project with different bosses. If they know your skills are the real deal, and aren't arrogant enough to think a new fresh out of college hire can replace you, this is what we call in leverage. Of course this depends on which boss is the one giving you problems. A director level is unavoidable if he has all projects going through him. A VP/ CTO is even harder.

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    Strat's Avatar
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    I have seen the same thing in small and mid size companies,people start businesses for many reasons,many of which do not have as much to do with money as you would think,some after working for assholes want to be their own boss then develop into the assholes other people work for,some wish to build a Kingdom for themselves where they can be the one who clears the room or the one who everyone falls silent before....make straight the way of the King and all that.

    The worst to work for can be the mid size family run business where you have to put up with idiot offspring and relatives who know nothing but share the same DNA....at the present I work for a good company that treats everybody well and things are going great.

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    realworld's Avatar
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    thanks for the insights.
    right now, my options as I see them:
    1. see myself as a contractor. Not touching politics. Salary is good, and team boss, since he has NO skills in our domain, let me do my shit. THe guy who do my evaluation is perfectly aware of the situation and leaves me alone in exchange of little training. So basically, take the money and not give a shit. But i m also aware, that in order to reationalize this comical reporting situation, team boss will probably shit on me when it comes to references. I can not have the single trust, when he s been lying, and acting like a ladder psychopath. I can use colleagues references though.

    2. Confront his blatant lie about evaluation, in yet undefined degree: from joke (eh..you told me that evaluation from junior was out!) to to formal fact display: i train the guy, a), b), c) etc..

    However the market is bad where i am now. We have generous unemployment benefits (70% salary for 20 months) in case of redundancy..but yea, that comes with cons too...

    the more i stride along, the more i am eager to be economically independant: I think that one of the biggest MGTOW component.


    thanks for your advices

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    0xNull_Xipher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realworld View Post
    So basically, take the money and not give a shit.
    I agree with this. But make sure you have something else to support if you become an indirect causaltiy
    of office politics.

    Try and develop a GYOW back up plan.

  11. #11
    realworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0xNull_Xipher View Post
    I agree with this. But make sure you have something else to support if you become an indirect causaltiy
    of office politics.

    Try and develop a GYOW back up plan.
    Yes. The potential office politics i have in mind could be redefining of my contract and salary decrease proposition. Thats the potential harm i see. The rest i dont give a shit. Im not planning on doing a caweeew there. If that harm would materialise, i can say no, and they would obviously fire me. I have to confront this today. In one hour. I was thinking to write an email to the boss, saying that i m surprised because that s not what was decided during the year. And that to me it cannot travestite my seniority to the other guy, with every objective measures. And that if this point is recognized, the rest doesnt bother me. That way, i have a written proof of my non acceptance of this particular point, would redefining my contract condition come with HR. It doesnt protect me per se, but it would make the task more ambiguous for him and HR would that discussion come. But that would be also their only way of extracting my system knowledge by gaining time..

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    HoneyBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasCovenant View Post
    I have found that if you are particularly effective in a role then the company will try and lock you into it, effectively closing down avenues of progression.

    It makes logical sense up to a point. The company doesn't want to risk your replacement being less effective and thereby losing productivity and profitability.

    On the other hand, when the company tips its hand in this manner, it becomes vulnerable to blackmail where you can (with another job offer in your hand) bid up to a salary level that goes well beyond what you contribute. A portion of the salary doesn't even relate to your contribution, it is bribe money to stop you wandering off.
    I had something similar happen to me. I was the best in my group and when it came time to post out my manager blocked it because I was "too young"...within two months of that I jumped ship.

    Are politics more common among corporations? If so I need to work for a smaller firm.

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    Lance's Avatar
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    What a depressing thread

    I was booted from a previous job because my boss was bragging about his young/innovative team and offended some of the other managers. When lay off time came, he ended up losing his team.

    I'm one of the most skilled in the department and have a boss that is insecure. We get along okay but that's mainly because I go out of my way to downplay my accomplishments, and be productive without showing anyone up. It's a difficult balance to maintain but unfortunately it seems like most places are like this these days.

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    realworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    What a depressing thread

    I was booted from a previous job because my boss was bragging about his young/innovative team and offended some of the other managers. When lay off time came, he ended up losing his team.

    I'm one of the most skilled in the department and have a boss that is insecure. We get along okay but that's mainly because I go out of my way to downplay my accomplishments, and be productive without showing anyone up. It's a difficult balance to maintain but unfortunately it seems like most places are like this these days.
    Hey Lance. Indeed, I cant lie, it does affect me. More so because the sum of all i have seen in 7 companies has lost/destroyed my hope for thriving in any corporation. And in a few years, you have to add the rampant and strong ageism in my branch, that will affect me (and many other professions). So i am intensively thinking of ways out nowadays..
    And yes, that can serve as a reminder for younger guys just starting their careers: plan your exit in your 20's already.. and save. I burned most of my savings on supporting my father for many years and throughout illness. Now i can see the price of it.

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